Here is the excerpt from Jennie's comments:
As far as household chores I was just recently thinking about this. I feel I do significantly more chores than husband but of course he never feels this way. And when I complain he always does more chores that week and I can always ask him to do things and he will. I've recently decided that he can just wait longer before he decides a chore needs doing. While I'm waiting for my coffee in the morning I'll put dishes away. If I see the floor is dirty I'll sweep. I've tried and tried to wait him out but he always wins. However, I don't think I have a very demanding career right now as a grad student. But I still try to veer our house life towards a 50/50 balance.
One more comment, I know this is getting long. I wanted to say something about the why questions. I know my husband always kept a very clean room and house he lived in before we were married, so I assumed he was a clean guy, what a catch, but he somehow lost this desire or ability to do this once we lived together. I don't see him as a sexist person but unfortunately I think some people expect certain roles in a marriage. So why I agree that the talent, educated women should say something about an imbalance I don't think they necessarily choose partners who they think wouldn't support them.
I agree that women don't deliberately choose partners whom they believe will be unsupportive. But I do know a few women scientists who married men who believe that wives should do all the cooking, cleaning, and child-rearing. So while these women didn't specifically select unsupportive spouses, the end result was the same--the husband has one full-time job, while the wife has a full-time job as a scientist plus another full-time job as homemaker.
I'm not arguing that the division of labor in every household must be exactly 50/50. It would be patently absurd to insist that for every 5 forks a woman washes, her partner must wash 5 spoons. I think that for a couple, the "right" division of labor is any arrangement that works for them and that they agree on. March Hare and I have a fairly flexible system--some chores are mine, some are his, and some we do together. The remaining ones are "floating" chores that are done by whoever has more time at the moment, although this usually means that they just don't get done.
I'm also not referring in my post to "I've done the dishes two more times than you in the last month" situations. The behaviors I find egregious are (1) when a woman's partner doesn't lift a finger to help out with housework even though she's working 70-hour weeks, (2) when a woman's partner calls her in lab at 6pm to yell at her because she's not home making dinner, and (3) when a woman has to plead with her partner to watch the kids for two hours on a Saturday so she can go do a few things in lab.
I don't think expectations of certain gender roles in marriage are necessarily bad as long as both parties are okay with them. But when partners behave as I describe above, what they're really saying is that they expect women to be live-in maids/cooks/nannies first and foremost, and that women should only have careers so long as those careers don't interfere with their "real" duties at home.
Many women I know who left science did so because, even though they had talent and passion for science, balancing the demands of work and home just got to be too much of a struggle. It wasn't always because their partners were unsupportive, and even when they were, that wasn't necessarily the sole reason for the women's departure. But I can't help wondering if some of them might've stayed had their partners simply said more often, "I understand that your career is important to you," "I'm proud of your accomplishments and aspirations," and "I know you've had a shitty week--let me help you with...."
I don't think that's too much for women scientists to ask of their partners...I really don't.
9 comments:
I don't mind my comment being used for a new post. I'm glad my comment sparked you to write more on the subject.
I think in addition to having a supportive spouse at home saying encouraging things it would also be nice for a work place to say "I know you have a family and a life, please don't work too much so that you can't participate in life and family."
But of course that is a subject for an entirely different post.
I also think the "two body" system works better if both spouses understand each other. I think my husband and I may not have made it though grad school if both of us weren't in the same boat. I knew another couple where one had a 9-5 job and the other was in academic and the 9-5er couldn't understand why the academic had to work such crazy hours.
And just so you know I totally agree with what you have been writing about. Everyone needs supportive partners.
Jennie--I totally agree. I know many scientists who have had the "But why do you have to work on weekends?" argument with with spouses/significant others who work "normal" hours.
There definitely needs to be some balance between having partners who are understanding and supportive of our careers and work schedules, and having a work environment that allows for a personal life.
Thanks so much for joining the discussion!
I'm still digesting this post. But while I do TAG!
On the flip side, when I dated a fellow grad student back in Scotland I found that all we ever talked about was work. Non-scientists are definitely better for my sanity, especially back when I was a postdoc!
VWXYNot?--I do agree that for me, a non-scientist partner is probably the better choice. I've never actually dated a fellow scientist, but I'm fairly competitive (and so is March Hare), so it's probably a good thing we're not in the same field! But his job also occasionally requires working crazy hours and he's as much of a perfectionist as I am, so he understands my compulsions with regard to work. :-)
Call me naive, but I must confess that I am shocked that, in 2007, we are talking about significant numbers of educated people born in the 1970s and 1980s who still think that women have primary responsibility for children and housework. Granted I work in industry (I'm an electrical engineer currently working on computer security at a telecom manufacturing company), but around here, such attitudes are the exception rather than the rule. Are things really that different in academia?
Theo--You ask a very interesting question which inspired me to write yet another post on this topic! Thanks for visiting and I appreciate the comments.
Before heading back to grad school, I used to be an engineer working for the space industry. I don't know if it had anything to do with the fact that many of my male colleagues had military background, but they too thought that women have primary responsibility for children and housework. They also think that women should be the ones to go during down-sizing because men are the breadwinners, alas, they needed the job more than the women! I still can't believe I had worked with these people for more than a week. Poor me.
Ugh...that sounds horrible. At least you've managed to escape to a better world!
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